Curse

MithranArkanere · Aug 12, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Well... getting sunspear and lightbringer are quite easy and fast, thanks to Junundu and Hard Mode.

In the case of Kurzick/Luxon skills, most of them are quite usable with low ranks. (The Warrior shout should have variable armor and more time, though.)

hobbit man · Aug 12, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Now, Anet says grinding is okay, so it is.

Seriously, that's how people playing the game think. Arena Net has proved that it's a horrible company.

With Prophecies, they set the bar high. They promised so much, but this game has gotten progressively worse. Titles have already made the game a complete grind. The Title system was probably the worst thing for the entire game. Now, instead of grinding for levels, you grind to have a little thing below your name...woo! It gives you absolutely no sense of accomplishment. The PVE Skills should not be linked to a title. It makes grinding completely necessary if you want to play with others. 90% of the time...people will get others with high titles, which means you will have to grind. ANET realizes it screwed up already, so that's why instead of expanding GW and fixing their mistakes, they are going to forget about it and move onto a new game.

dargon · Aug 12, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Oh please, ANet has never said grinding was bad, what they've said is that you can do it if you want to, but YOU DON'T HAVE TO. As an example, Triple Shot, this skill does the exact same amount of damage as dualshot if you have 1 rank in Kurzick / Luxon.

Dualshot, 2 arrows - 25% damage, so 75%+75% = 150%
Tripleshot, 3 arrows - 50% damage, so 50%+50%+50% = 150%

Rangers have been using dualshot for the last 2 years, there is nothing in the game that forces them to grind up to use tripleshot, but they can if they want to.

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 12, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Oh please, ANet has never said grinding was bad, what they've said is that you can do it if you want to, but YOU DON'T HAVE TO. As an example, Triple Shot, this skill does the exact same amount of damage as dualshot if you have 1 rank in Kurzick / Luxon.

Dualshot, 2 arrows - 25% damage, so 75%+75% = 150%
Tripleshot, 3 arrows - 50% damage, so 50%+50%+50% = 150%

Rangers have been using dualshot for the last 2 years, there is nothing in the game that forces them to grind up to use tripleshot, but they can if they want to.

I'm sorry, what?

The main use of Dual Shot has been to trigger things per arrow, most famously the Order and Conjure skills. With Triple Shot, you're getting an extra trigger for free, which means that while the arrow damage is comparable, the trigger damage is much higher. And then, as you mention, there's the ability for Triple Shot to scale up based on the title, which makes it a clear winner at higher allegiance ranks. If you're running a specific build that relies on Dual Shot, you would be crazy not to want Triple Shot - which makes grind mandatory rather than optional.

As for OP's question of why grinding is OK now, my understanding is that grinding feeds excellently into the new marketing model for GW. Titles and title grind keeps players playing longer, so rewarding this behavior is precisely what ANet needs to do to keep players in the game. Sure, it might turn off some people who don't feel like putting that much time into GW, but this new "core audience" of grinders is the one that will be buying GWEN and GW2 to capitalize on all that hard labor, first with the Hall of Monuments and then with the "inheritance."

It's sad to think that the rest of us will have to either walk the line or get left behind, but that's ANet's current marketing strategy, and the potential payoff in "loyal customer retention" is simply too large to pass up.

Buster · Aug 12, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbit man

Now, Anet says grinding is okay, so it is.

Seriously, that's how people playing the game think. Arena Net has proved that it's a horrible company.

With Prophecies, they set the bar high. They promised so much, but this game has gotten progressively worse. Titles have already made the game a complete grind. The Title system was probably the worst thing for the entire game. Now, instead of grinding for levels, you grind to have a little thing below your name...woo! It gives you absolutely no sense of accomplishment. The PVE Skills should not be linked to a title. It makes grinding completely necessary if you want to play with others. 90% of the time...people will get others with high titles, which means you will have to grind. ANET realizes it screwed up already, so that's why instead of expanding GW and fixing their mistakes, they are going to forget about it and move onto a new game.

Yup , Anet is so horrible that the company has sold 4 million copies of Guild Wars. Its so horrible that they are expanding Guild Wars with Guild Wars 2 mmo. Its so horrible that many many people who started Prophecies still play this game. Obviously your comments here are just to flame Guild Wars. Instead of criticizing/flaming, constructive criticism would work alot better.

Voltar · Aug 13, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

What I posted in another thread on the same topic:

Playing the game at all is optional. This isn't a matter of civil rights or anything critical to our lives. It's a matter of preserving one of the qualities of the game that draws me to it. I've said before that I don't mind the faction requirement to get skills, it's just (for instance the SS and LB titles) when I find myself doing something repetitive that I wouldn't do otherwise (that sounds like a reasonable definition of grinding) that I find gameplay too unpleasant. Yeah, they're optional just like playing the whole game is optional and posting my opinions on a fansite is optional. My gameplay style is to play the whole game at least once. I've played through almost all of the quests though I hate about 99% of the quests in this game. I've played all PvP Arenas (except HvH) at least a few times to get the feel for the whole game even though the guild I GvG'd in sucked and lost every match. Now I feel comfortable that I'm at least remotely knowledgeable about all aspects of the game...some a whole lot more than others.

Anyone who's recovering from playing WoW (I've been WoW-free for just over a year now...It's easier now but I still take it one day at a time) will recognise this title crap as the Blizzard, 'carrot on a stick,' model of account retention. We have a chance to keep GW2 from becoming a WoW emulator and we need to work together to keep that, "You've almost maxed your character out, almost..almost...NEW INSTANCE! Your gear is relative crap now! Try again and pay us more! Oh wait! EXPANSION! Duped again sucker! $15 please, ty...come again." from ruining he game. Believe me, WoW does a way better job of being WoW than Anet is capable of doing. Leave artificial demand to the masters and provide a fun game for the rest of us.

hallomik · Aug 13, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

The main use of Dual Shot has been to trigger things per arrow, most famously the Order and Conjure skills. With Triple Shot, you're getting an extra trigger for free, which means that while the arrow damage is comparable, the trigger damage is much higher. And then, as you mention, there's the ability for Triple Shot to scale up based on the title, which makes it a clear winner at higher allegiance ranks. If you're running a specific build that relies on Dual Shot, you would be crazy not to want Triple Shot - which makes grind mandatory rather than optional.

You make a good point, but...

This is a PVE Only skill. It's desirable, sure, but where serious competition matters, one player won't have it when the other does. Yes, some PVE build may be advantaged with this - but against Mobs. No one would possibly demand this skill in a build. It's a little PVE reward for a modest amount of account-wide grind.

Again, the spirit of the argument, I agree with. There should be no game-imbalancing rewards for serious grind. All Guild Wars players should agree with that.

I think we should all also agree that the current LB/SS/Factions skills do not do that.

jesusrunz · Aug 13, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

I can't believe I just read people complaining about achieving rank 1, numerous times.

Another Felldspar · Aug 13, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Though I'll admit I haven't read the entire thread no one in the first several pages of posts even mentioned that you can get Kurzick/Luxon points the same way you get Sunspear or Lightbringer points -- walk out of a town in HM, talk to the priest at the rez shrine and bang away at the monsters and bosses while collecting drops and earning faction. It doesn't take 1,000 hours and it's fun game play. If one town has gotten old move a little deeper into the forest or sea. And, depending on where the territorial line falls at the time, you might even be able to get Kurzick faction while vanquishing typically Luxon areas. It's game play. If you choose to grind, that's up to you, but there are other options, fun options, available.

Aye

Masterr · Aug 13, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

i can only hope that gwen title tied skills sucks, or that the max lvl can be attained withouth grinding, dont say they are optional, if the team build for a place requires it it wont be optional. for example: an ele can finish the game withouth Meteor Shower and Searing Flames, can you say they are optional?